Is the Chase not good enough for the Nationwide and Truck Series, or are the Nationwide and Truck Series not good enough for the Chase?
As NASCAR tries to fix what probably doesn’t need to be fixed, I’ve got wonder how long it’s going to take them to start applying the points changes (that is the six year old changes) to their two other series.
I know, for many of you, the Chase is a sore subject – and you would just as soon see them get rid of it than see it expanded. No matter your feelings though, doesn’t having two different systems to determine champions throughout the sport undermine the legitimacy of the most contested points system?
I won’t get into NASCAR making changes to the Chase (for the record I think it’s a bad idea – and feel free to discuss it), but I do believe there needs to be uniformity across the series in how a champion is crowned.
In one breath NASCAR is saying the Chase is a great way to determine a champion (though apparently not great enough), and then in the other (though not directly) acknowledging the strength of the old system by allowing it to continue in two of its three national series. Hence the undermining.
I get we’re supposed to have three distinct and unique series. Despite those differences though, and the individual strengths of each of the series, I firmly believe NASCAR needs to administer all three as similarly as possible. If one has a Chase, they should all have a Chase.
On top of that, I think it serves its purpose well enough. We get better fights at the end of the season – and more often than not the best driver does win. So why can’t this work in the Truck and Nationwide Series?
I know it’s not a big thing, but I want a sport that functions like a cohesive unit – not like three stand alone bodies. It may, or may not bother you that NASCAR doesn’t use a uniform system across all three of its series, but it kind of bothers me.
What do you think? Is uniformity in the points necessary across all three series? Would you like to see the Chase be the points system across the sport?
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A Monday race means it’s a short week! Only a few more days before the weekend is here. The Cup Series gets another off weekend, while the Nationwide and Truck Series head to the Music City. If you don’t know what this post is, we answer any and all reader questions every Wednesday, right here. So if you’ve got one, click on the ”Ask the Insiders” tab at the top of the page and send one to us. On to the questions…
1. From Eddie:
With the wing being replaced by the spoiler starting at Martinsville, what will NASCAR do with the now useless wings?
Throw them in the trash? I honestly don’t know. What do you do with a bunch of useless pieces of carbon fiber? I haven’t heard any specific plans to do anything with them. Sorry I can’t be of more help. – Journo
2. From Cat:
Living in North Carolina, I see a lot of advertisements for NTI of UTI, based out of Mooresville. I also know there is a similar school in Texas, but I can’t recall it’s name. What are you guys’ opinions of these types of schools? Are they the best or only way into working on racing teams? Thank you very much for your time!
The NASCAR Technical Institute in Mooresville is basically just a renamed Universal Technical Institute. These schools are meant to train students to be auto mechanics. NTI in Mooresville does offer some “racing” specific courses, but the majority of the curriculum is centered around working at a dealership or repair shop. They give students a solid foundation, and are good at teaching the basics. But in terms of getting into racing, we’ve heard the hire rate for students right out of the school is in the low single digits. There are definitely NTI graduates working in the sport, but they aren’t overly common. Once they graduate, students must do like everyone else and network like crazy. Opportunities with teams in lower series are probably their best bet early on. It’s definitely not the only way to get hired, and it isn’t necessarily the best either. – T.C.
3. From Christopher:
When I see a list of drivers- like on nascar.com’s race lineup page, some drivers have three-digit numbers. 135 (Johnny Sauter), and 190 (Casey Mears) are examples. I’ve heard this has something to do with there being two 35’s and 90’s (in my example). However, from what I can tell, there is no 35 or 90 in NASCAR right now? What’s the deal with this?
In their records for owners, somebody is already attached to those two numbers. I couldn’t tell you who though. For points and payouts, NASCAR must assign unique numbers to all the teams, so that’s why you see those listed as three digit numbers. Those teams are allowed to use the numbers, but if the owner who actually has the #90 or #35 shows up, those two cars must use another number. – T.C.
4. From Ric:
I have heard there is a pedestrian tunnel under the track at Bristol, but I have never seen it. Where are the two ends located?
There is definitely a pedestrian tunnel at Bristol. It is located at the end of the backstretch, heading into turn three. It is just below the gate where the haulers enter and leave the track. If you’ve ever seen the ramp that leads up to victory lane, the tunnel is right below it. – T.C.
5. From Loren:
I don’t see ‘championship’ patches on NW or Truck drivers’ firesuits. Why not? I think they should.
There is nothing stopping them from doing it (at least that I’m aware of). I just think it’s a design preference. Some teams and drivers do it, others don’t. – Journo
And that brings yet another “Ask The Insiders Wednesday” to a close. Thanks to everyone who sent in questions. And remember, if you’d like to be a part of next week, click on the ”Ask the Insiders” tab at the top of the page and send your question in!
I know this is getting beat to death around the NASCAR world, but I think it’s a worthy subject. I’m talking about NASCAR, at least preliminarily, relenting on changes to the COT.
As of right now nothing has been done and nothing has been announced and all we’ve got from NASCAR is “maybe talk,” but truly it’s a great start. Throughout the season we saw a sanctioning body more engaged with drivers and team owners, holding town hall style meetings and asking their opinions on a wide number of subjects.
In addition the sanctioning body is utilizing the Fan Council and tapping into the sentiments of the most important people involved in the sport. While they’re only occasional surveys, I promise NASCAR is listening. You screamed about Digger and they brought it to David Hill; he unfortunately didn’t listen.
Back to the COT though, this is something NASCAR has consistently refused to make changes to in the years since its introduction; and honestly that probably wasn’t a bad thing. Can you imagine being a crew chief or driver and trying to figure out a car they were constantly making changes to? It would have been a disaster.
Now they’re talking to drivers and owners and looking at making a change to the car. A wing or a spoiler? It makes no difference to me. I’m not offended by the aesthetics of the car (and certainly don’t have to drive one), but I know I’m in the minority on that. What effect will it have? I honestly have no idea. The reaction to it is clearly mixed throughout the garage. We’ll see how it works on track.
The point is NASCAR is listening; and they’re actually considering changes based on what people are saying. This really is huge. In addition to the possible changes to the COT, they’re expected to make some rule changes. The media tour is next week; NASCAR’s turn is Thursday, so expect some announcements from them.
I know this is hard to believe sometimes, but the folks at NASCAR really do want you to be happy. Happy fans, make for good bottom lines. And as we say here so often, this is a business.
A Clarification on the #26 Points Situation
We had a question in Ask the Insiders this week about the points situation of the #26. Here was my response:
I honestly haven’t heard anything about this deal, but it’s my understanding from the way NASCAR has done things in the past that they won’t be allowed to sell owner points. The problem arises because the past team owner would be listed as the owner. As Jack Roush already has four teams he can’t be listed as an owner on another car (this would be the same issue for RPM). This is very similar to the DEI-Ginn points situation (they would have exceeded the car limit). NASCAR allowed DEI to sell the points to RCR and Front Row last year because they didn’t exceed the car limit. You’ll notice Teresa Earnhardt is listed as the owner on the #34 and Bobby Ginn as owner of the #33. If NASCAR operates like they did in the past I would expect the points to disappear.
Well NASCAR didn’t operate like they did in the past and allowed Roush to essentially sell the points through a “comprehensive services agreement” to a new team owner. NASCAR clarified today (story here and here), saying this was a ONE TIME deal that they were allowing because they were forcing Roush’s downsizing. Fair enough.
In these situations in the past NASCAR has required the team owner transferring the points to somehow be involved in the team. That’s why you see Bobby Ginn listed as a team owner at RCR and why Smith Ganassi Racing has Ganassi in its name (and why Ganassi is listed as the team owner of the #42). Obviously neither of these men has anything to do with the teams that took their points, but it placates NASCAR so that’s what’s done. For all intents and purposes, while they don’t technically allow it, the points are sold.
The end of the NASCAR offseason draws ever closer, but to tide you over until Daytona arrives, we’ve got more reader questions and answers. If you don’t know what this post is, we answer any and all reader questions every Wednesday, right here. So if you’ve got one, click on the ”Ask the Insiders” tab at the top of the page and send one to us. On to the questions…
1. From Ric:
How much accuracy do you have in tire pressure?
Most digital tire pressure gauges read pressures to the tenth of a pound. From there, it is about how accurate your gauge is. - T.C.
2. From Marc:
Happy New Year! Has there been any more talk about the disposition of the two “orphan” teams, the 26 from Roush and one of the Petty/Yates teams? I realize that NASCAR has to approve of any sale and nixed DEI selling their fifth team after buying Ginn, but they did let Teresa Earnhardt use the #15 points to enter Front Row’s #34 last year. Could another such deal be in the works for, say, the new Fords of #37 being “owned” by Max Jones, or will the two teams just disappear, allowing the 82 and 71 in the top 35 (and the 09 if the 07 disappears after Daytona)?
Good timing. Jayski’s reporting a Vermont businessman is buying the #26 equipment from Roush. I honestly haven’t heard anything about this deal, but it’s my understanding from the way NASCAR has done things in the past that they won’t be allowed to sell owner points. The problem arises because the past team owner would be listed as the owner. As Jack Roush already has four teams he can’t be listed as an owner on another car (this would be the same issue for RPM). This is very similar to the DEI-Ginn points situation (they would have exceeded the car limit). NASCAR allowed DEI to sell the points to RCR and Front Row last year because they didn’t exceed the car limit. You’ll notice Teresa Earnhardt is listed as the owner on the #34 and Bobby Ginn as owner of the #33. If NASCAR operates like they did in the past I would expect the points to disappear. Richard Childress though would be allowed to sell his points if he so chooses.- Journo
3. From Jeff:
My question is about car numbers. Back in 1993, Petty Enterprises ran the 44 instead of the 43, but the next year, they went back to the 43. If I remember correctly, this was because NASCAR told them that if they did not use the 43, it could be assigned to another team. Am I right or wrong about this, and if that is the case, why haven’t they done the same with the number 3?
NASCAR holds all the rights to the numbers. No one technically owns any number. So if NASCAR wanted to, they could giveaway the #3. Would they do that? No. This is a courtesy to both Richard Childress and the Earnhardt family. Should Richard Childress decide he wanted to use it, he would certainly be allowed to. There isn’t a shortage of numbers so there really is no reason why NASCAR would allow someone to use the #3. – Journo
4. From Lyn:
Hey, after reading the last column, it seems as if you still have some hope for Reed Sorenson to do well. Is this true? Personally I think he has all the talent in the world, he was just thrust into Cup way to fast with a team that couldn’t provide quality equipment, even RPM couldn’t do that.
While I think Reed was pushed too fast into Cup, my confidence in his abilities are not great. Reed has had opportunities at decent teams, and just hasn’t done anything. His average finish actually got worse every year he was at Ganassi. At RPM he had even fewer excuses because AJ Allmendinger, Elliott Sadler and Kasey Kahne all out-performed him. Kasey Kahne even won two races in 2009 and participated in the Chase. I think the Nationwide Series is a good place for Reed. He’s always been competitive there. Maybe he’ll be ready at some point to give the Cup Series another try, but I don’t think he’s got it right now. – Journo
5. From Dennis M:
When will NASCAR wake up and shorten the caution periods for minor incidents like debris? We see the debris, we watch them pick it up and then we watch five to seven more laps of yellow flag parade. It would be a lot more interesting if you had to take your chances with a pit stop instead of knowing you had a yellow flag for X number of laps. Pick up the debris and put the green out!
With the rules the way they are, caution periods last a little longer because of pit stops, the lucky dog, and the wave around rules. I think NASCAR tries to use “quicky yellows” as often as they can, but sometimes cleanup crews need more time. With that said, don’t expect to see any changes here any time soon. NASCAR is always going to take as much time as they see fit to make sure the racing surface is as safe as possible. – T.C.
6. From Brian:
Here’s my question for Ask The Insiders: Does NASCAR require that a Cup team have a pit crew when they show up at the track? Can you qualify and start the race without a crew? Can you keep racing without a crew?
NASCAR doesn’t require teams to have a crew. In fact next time you’re at a race look for the start and park teams on pit road; they usually have one or two guys in the pit. You could keep racing without a crew but you’re going to have trouble when you need fuel or tires. The point of a pit crew is to service the car and do it quickly. Without one you can neither service the car nor do it quickly. – Journo
7. From Jerry:
Guys I responded to your question a few weeks ago about changes NASCAR should make. One of the things I said was get rid of the wing. Lee Spencer is reporting today that it looks like that is a change coming by Bristol. What do you think?
I’m taking a wait and see attitude with this one. I haven’t really talked to anybody about this one yet and I don’t know enough about aerodynamics to know how this will affect the COT. I’m also not sure if this is the magic bullet that will fix the “bad” racing everyone has complained about. What I do know, is that this change will cost teams thousands of dollars, because all of their old data will become useless when this change is made. - T.C.
8. From Anonymous:
Was reading an article that the rear wing will be replaced with the spoiler. Have you seen this change implemented yet? Now to get rid of the splitter and a more aesthetic nose! Enough of the off season. Come on Speed Weeks 2010!!!
I have yet to see a car with a spoiler on it yet. I’m sure it’s only a matter of time though. The teams won’t make any major changes to their fleets until they know for sure the change is coming. – T.C.
9. From Kevin:
Hi Guys, I have a couple of questions about RWR. Do Rusty’s long term plans include going to the Cup Series? Also, do you guys expect they will see great improvement with the switch to Toyota/JGR? Also, how much longer/how many cars will little Rusty get to wreck? That would be a good bet this year!! I know some people hate Rusty, and he can be a jerk sometimes, but I hope he has success b/c the sport needs owners like him.
I honestly don’t know what their long term plans currently are. There has been talk over the years about them going to the Cup Series, but like all things that takes money. It’ll be interesting to see how the JGR program works this time. Remember Hall of Fame had a technical alliance with Gibbs a couple of seasons ago and that didn’t turn out well. I think some changes have been made from that initial program though, so it might be a good thing. I know Rusty would like to see Steve in the Cup Series, so they’re in this for the long haul. – Journo
As promised here is an update of the points under the old points system. If you didn’t catch it, I wrote a post the other day about it.
1. #48 Jimmie Johnson, 5156 2. #24-Jeff Gordon, 5090, -66 3. #14-Tony Stewart, 5085, -71 4. #11-Denny Hamlin, 4806, -350 5. #5-Mark Martin, 4762, -394 6. #2-Kurt Busch, 4758, -398 7. #16-Greg Biffle, 4541, -615 8. #42-Juan Pablo Montoya, 4503, -653 9. #18-Kyle Busch, 4457, -699 10. #39-Ryan Newman, 4447, -709 11. #99-Carl Edwards, 4398, -758 12. #17-Matt Kenseth, 4389, -767 13. #9-Kasey Kahne, 4388, -768 14. #33-Clint Bowyer, 4359, -797 15. #00-David Reutimann, 4221, -935 16. #83-Brian Vickers, 4122, -1034
No surprises here. As with the Chase points, Jimmie led into the finale at Homestead and only strengthened his lead. His nearest competitor going into Homestead under the old points system was Tony Stewart and do to his and Montoya’s on track antics, he didn’t finish very well.
As with last week, Mark Martin (finished 2nd) and Brian Vickers (finished 12th) were helped the most by the chase; Tony Stewart (finished 6th) and Kyle Busch (finished 13th) were hurt the most.
Again though all in all the Chase didn’t change who won and didn’t have too much effect on where everyone finished (if everything had turned out the same); the cream always rises to the top.
While I understand this post is completely hypothetical, I think it’s interesting to look at how things would shake out. Ultimately what we find year in and year out is things don’t really change that much.
It creates some excitement toward the end of the season and lets us play the what-if game, but in the end what happens here probably would have happened there.
Our Off-Season Plans
Well, a couple hundred posts and a ton of different stories, we find ourselves at the end of another season. After some discussion TC and I decided we are going to cut back posting in the off-season to three days per week plus a Saturday links post. Never fear though we’re still going to be doing Ask The Insiders Wednesday, so keep sending questions!
Of course if anything comes up on one of our off days, any news or rumors, we’ll jump on and bring it to you.
As for the rest of this week, we’ll be closed for business (well maybe not closed, we just won’t be posting).
I hope all of you have a great Thanksgiving and we’ll see you back here with a new post Monday, November 30.
Oh and before I go, TC and I both want to thank everyone for coming to the site and engaging us and each other. It’s because of you that we enjoy doing this everyday.